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The Great Sodium Hydroxide 0.1 normal vs 0.2 normal test

 
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yeastmeister
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:32 am    Post subject: The Great Sodium Hydroxide 0.1 normal vs 0.2 normal test Reply with quote

As discussed at the meeting, I ordered an acidity kit from Austin Homebrew, the kit was made by LD carlson. It contained Sodium Hydroxide 0.2 N solution, but the instructions were identical to other instructions. I'm a relatively new wine maker, I unsuspectingly used the kit and determined that the acidity of my muscadine wine was almost spot on.

Here are pictures of the process, and discussion of the results of my testing.

Here is the Sodium Hydroxide that came in my LD Carlson Kit


Here is the Sodium Hydroxide you can get from Marcellos or other places


I also ordered an Accuvin Quicktest kit to have a 2nd opinion on the acidity


I have a sophisticated PH meter that allows for 5 point calibration


I calibrated the meter immediately prior to this test with the full range of solutions


I also have an Eppendorf Repeating Pippet that allows for precise measurements of solutions added


15ml of Elderberry wine still ready to be adjusted


I added the Phenolphthalein Color solution to each one as well, just to get visual confirmation, although its not needed if you use a PH meter. Here are the results, the 0.1 solution is on the left, the 0.2 solution is on the right.


So, basically, 0.2 solution needed 5.5 ml to reach 8.2 PH, the 0.1 solution needed 11ml to reach the 8.2 PH, which was right?

Enter the Accuvin Quicktest, it more or less agrees with the 11 I got from the 0.1 solution


The instructions on the box are clearly for the 0.1 solution, but the box contained the 0.2 solution. No notation anywhere on the box indicates what strength solution should be in the kit.

Whats it mean? Basically, you can use either one, with the 0.2 solution, 1ml = .2% acidity, with the 0.1 soution, 1ml = .1% acidity


It also means that my elderberry wine is WAY too acidic. Looks like I need to drop it at least .3, maybe .4 %. Any thoughts from the club on what to use? Calcium Carbonate? Potassium Bicarbonate?


Last edited by yeastmeister on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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mert latta



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Lafayette, La.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: RE: THE GREAT SODIUM HYDROXODE TEST Reply with quote

Hi Gene

In answer to your fist question on the test results, they are both the same as the solution strengths are not the same, but the fist one is twice the stength of the second one, therfore the second .01 solution needs twice as much sodium hydroxide because the solution is half the strength of the first.

Because you are in the finishing stage of this wine, you will need to add the potassium bicarbonate to nuetralize the acid, had the reading been taken at the beginning of the process you would have used the calicium carbonate. I ideally your acid reading should be about 6.2 or to your personal taste.

I hope this will help you.

Regards,
Mert
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yeastmeister
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply! Nice to see the wine club website becoming active.

I searched Jack Kellers website, and came up with the following:

"Potassium bicarbonate is used to deacidify a wine with a low pH (below 3.5), but should not be used to reduce acidity more than 0.3%. A dose of 3.4 grams per gallon of wine lowers acidity by about 0.1%. After use, the wine should be cold stabilized, as up to 30% of the potential acid reduction occurs during cold stabilization. It will cause a greater rise in pH than calcium carbonate for an equivalent reduction in acidity."

Leads me to more questions:
"Should not be used to reduce acidity more that 0.3%", I need to reduce mine by .4 to .5%. What should I do? Ignore Jacks advice, or use a combination of Calcium Carbonate and Potassium Bicarbonate? Or some other answer? What am I risking in regards to flavor if I ignore Jacks 0.3% rule?

This is hopefully an example of how I hope the wineclubs website can be used to help others....
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mert latta



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Lafayette, La.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just my opinion. You can only reduce your acid so much. Maybe you should have changed acid at start with calium carbonate allittle better? Grandpa did not have Jack Keller, he is good BUT, he is used as a guide only. Use your gut feeling, you know what you are doing. I would shoot for changing your acid btwn. .3/.4% using Potassium Bicarbonate. Don't think you will effect flavor that much. Then come back with a sweetner just enough to get the tartness out an using your personal taste. Then add Metalbisulfite (stops oxidation) an glycerine a few weeks before bottleing... Just don't get in no hurry, you gor all year .. Good Luck

MERT
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denisd



Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Sodium Hydroxide Test Reply with quote

Good work Gene! I had an idea that the addition of the .01 normal to the must solution would give a different indication of the titrateable acid . Thank you for makeing the test. I am very impressed with the methodology of your test procedure.
I agree with Mert about the addition of KHCo3 to reduce the acid of the finished wine. I also believe that cold stabelisation will make all the differance in the finished wine. Denis De Priest

How do you spell check the Post before it is sent?
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yeastmeister
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Sodium Hydroxide Test Reply with quote

denisd wrote:
How do you spell check the Post before it is sent?


Use firefox as a browser, it has spell check built in, that will work on any website you post at. Misspelled words will show up as red underlines, and you can right click on them to see the correction if firefox knows it.
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